February+27+Discussions+for+The+Pooh+Way+(post+here)

Agatha Eungi Jason Kevin J. Joorhee

Notes:
1. How does the literal and practical meaning of Wu Wei differ? How is it related? Wu Wei= rule without action (don’t go against the nature) (p.68) Wu Wei: “without doing, causing, or making” In practical means “without meddlesome, combative, or egotistical effort” Oppose Wu Wei = no cleverness

2. Why do humans not follow the principle of minimal effort and make mistakes? Human have the tendency to solve and make things better. For example, when an empire falls, usually there has been a problem with trying to make society better and fail. People don’t see some problems can have very easy solution. Referring to the book. Pooh does not work hard however, things are done at the end. Even though you don’t do anything, things will eventually get done. (p.70)“Tao does not do but nothing is not done”

3. How does cleverness disagree with Wu Wei? Cleverness =Confucianism = think too much therefore make mistake.=thinking ahead= specific= Cleverness thinks too much because they were considered smart. Wu Wei (not against nature)=Taoism= let things flow and things will be done=relax, calm =General= Wu Wei is stupid in Confucianism because Wu Wei lets things flow and not do anything

4. Wu Wei doesn't do anything other than finishing their primary goals.(no extra thinking, no "real" effort) So how effective would Wu Wei be in experiencing life? Wu Wei does not really involve with knowledge, experience and logic. Nature take care of things. Not really effective because everyone will just try to let things flow and not do anything. If no one not do anything, the society will fall. Wu Wei can be very ineffective without the experience of facing problems. Our perspective is in Confucianism, therefore we think that Wu Wei is ineffective.

5. What does the phrase, "I think therefore I am confused," say about those who try to hard? (p.77) “I think therefore I am confused” Opposing and degrading Confucianism. Ridiculing the people who try hard. People over think and get confused. Do more than you need to. Separate themselves from nature.

Soyeon Ji Yoon Rachel Jenice & Olivia’s Lovely Discussion

1. How does the literal and practical meaning of Wu Wei differ? How is it related? - Wu Wei: without causing and making (literally doing nothing- would this ever make sense?): do what you are doing but don’t overdue it (there should be a fine line between being lazy and being a Taoist)

2. Why do humans not follow the principle of minimal effort and make mistakes? - how could you expect something and just expect people to get the goal? - humans learn from their mistakes/ we can’t get something just wanting it: wouldn’t it be so hard to ‘not to anything?’ - “Literally, Wu Wei means ‘without doing, causing, or making.’ But practically speaking, it means without meddlesome, combative, or egotistical effort.” - go with the flow, don’t interfere and just make things happen naturally - Taoism and their mistakes: people don’t make mistakes? Do they consider it as just a progress in life?

3. How does cleverness disagree with Wu Wei? - knowledge that is limited - cleverness requires you to think but Wu Wei is expecting Taoists to go with the flow and to perceive things just as they are presented

4. Wu Wei doesn't do anything other than finishing their primary goals.(no extra thinking, no "real" effort) So how effective would Wu Wei be in experiencing life? - we should know how to use our inner natures and cooperate them with natural laws in order to perform and reach the principle of Wu Wei - it would be so boring, not doing anything and not really doing anything - maybe even today ‘making things work naturally’ applies to us today- but just doing things without pressure in us

5. What does the phrase, "I think therefore I am confused," say about those who try to hard? - if you overthink about anything, we could be confused - if you wouldn’t ask questions, then you’ll still be confused? - simplicity, and ignorant is bliss: maybe that quote symbolizes pooh - Is Hoff contradicting himself? Is this book really valuable and reasonable to read? (We thought too much. We shouldn’t if we’re reading this book! haha) - Rene Descartes: “I think therefore I am confused” – scientific revolution (rapid evolution): thinking is both good and bad (overthinking could cause confusion)

WOW THIS DISCUSSION IS CONFUSING. WE THINK TOO MUCH.

Corie Lauren Sarah Seung-Woo Kevin Gunwoo

Notes: -Can't really create laws or principles because that goes against the natural way, the Wu Wei. -Eventually reach what You want to get to even if you do not try that hard. -Beetle story, when everyone was try too hard, everyone else got lost, and in the end Pooh found the beetle, even though he did not do anything. -Paradox how people would make effort to be effortless. -Wu Wei would confuse people that EVERYTHING will work out without any effort what so ever, thus making people lazy. -Legalism could be because in that, people have to follow man made laws instead of the natural ones. -"Taoists does not do, but nothing is not done," (70) Shows that even if u do not "do" things will get done. -People working too hard will help make mistakes, even if not all the time -Knowing too much, being clever disagrees with Wu Wei because, it goes against not trying too hard. Being too clever would make people try harder and look for answers that may not exist and do not related to the question at all. -Taoism can't be thought in a literal way, because then it would make no sense at all. -Rather than, not doing anything, and just be lazy is not what Taoism is talking about but rather, the knowledge of the fact that trying to put a square block in a circle hole is not practical and there is no need in trying.

Alice, Albert, Michelle, Andrew, and Jay.

6. What does it mean, you have to let things work out, not make them? - The Nature is doing everything; there's no need to ex) ice cream melting; it is obviously going to melt, there;s not need to melt it by Don't need to interfere with the world issues because it is going to workout by itself (let nature take care of it) Go along with natural orders in life, don't need to change things because of nature.
 * Notes**:

7. How does the story of Pooh and his friends looking for the beetle help explain the "Pooh way"? - They are not trying to look for the beetle but they found the beetle - we find things when we are not looking for it. - sometimes it is very stupid because we are obviously going to find it. Fulfills the Wu Wei principle but won't be effective - Part of nature "We will obviously find things in some day but finding things after 10 years might follow the principle but won't be useful. " (Albert Joo) - Trying to hard; you won't really get to your destination; think positively, not thinking about the

8. If Wu Wei is indefinable and invisible, how does one follow it? Wouldn't trying to follow this path make humans try to hard? - bound to try hard and hard to let go of things - out society is hard to relax but in other places its harder to try - "Trying to follow the Wu Wei that is already trying it, so it is already violating the first rule." (Andrew Noga)

9. Could Wu Wei be an excuse for laziness if it claims things will work out by themselves and you do not really have to try? - It depends on how the people handle it. If they do not ex) Snow came and the mother asks the son to shovel the snow. (Noga) It is going to melt anyway.. (laziness) difference between lazy and not trying - goes against the natural law Wu Wei is a way to create harmony. Martial Art, Taichi, they do something but they don't add to the fight; they just deflect it (like judo)

10. What would be the exact opposite of the Pooh way? - Confucian way - Communism is a little similar to The Pooh Way - Trying to change your fate - " Take advantages of each and lessen the competition but work to change so combine them and it would be better." (Michelle Kim)

Quotes: - "With other approaches, you may fight fire with fire, but with Wu Wei, you fight fire with water " (Hoff 88) - "For it knew now where it was going, and said to itself 'there is no hurry we shall get there someday' " (Hoff 67)